Concerned JW

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Posts by Concerned JW

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  48

  religion only to do with belief?

  by Curtains in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as jehovahs witnesses we were taught that the truth (belief) unifies every aspect of our lives and is of paramount importance.

  are other like religions like this also?

  do they emphasize belief to the same extent?.

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  Concerned JW

  Witness My Fury you basically saying Witneses don't think and are mindless drones, is not going to help your points! It shows a bigotry that is very off-putting. People become witnesses after a lot of study and looking at all aspects of what they are choosing with great depth of research. Bringing up points like 607 which is more of an attack on the bible being correct rather than witnesses is not going to help your cause. Is your problem with witnesses or the bible? The scripture telling us to "Be in agreement" is not to be taken lightly. It is sensible to have a consensus agreement as a group and the bible is very clear on that. All secular governments work on consensus agreement. It is simply just being practical. Anarchy is not a practical choice it simply crumbles as a workable alternative.

  Godrulz I simply don't agree with what you are reading into those scriptures. For one thing you are being very selective about what you are focusing on and taking them out of chapter context too. 1 cor 13 is very clear that the tongues will cease! your argument is that they cease on perfection but that means you ignore the mention of us being left with "partial knowledge and partial prophecy" for a time and it is these that perfection is said to specifically end. You are literally chopping away the middle scriptures to suit your exegesis.

  You then chopped 1 cor 14 up quite ruthlessly. 1 cor 14:9 is the real problem for your exegesis because it talks about speaking into the air unless the tongues are understood. Acts 2:8 shows they are talking to people in their own languages and being understood. The word is "languages" not dialects. Which tongue Peter used (isn't mentioned) and is irrelevent to the point that the original tongues where understandable languages and not unintelligable gibberish. However you try and explain acts 2 you cannot ignore that the tongues where understood something which is absent from people who claim tongues now. I like how even you try and draw away from "lunatic fringe" penatacostals showing even you have your own line drawn as to what tongues you accept as real and who you think are being mad.

  You and I are never going to agree. Pentacostals have too much invested in their commitment to their own form of spirit gifts which bears little resemblance to what really happened with the gifts in the bible. Please forgive my bluntness! Your sincere allegience to pentacostalism I do not doubt but while it is an enthusiastic, popular religion it has a lack of biblical depth which personally puts me off it.
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  48

  religion only to do with belief?

  by Curtains in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as jehovahs witnesses we were taught that the truth (belief) unifies every aspect of our lives and is of paramount importance.

  are other like religions like this also?

  do they emphasize belief to the same extent?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Concerned JW

  Thank you for your reply Curtains. My thoughts on Atheism becoming a social religion are only recent in origin since seeing how fervent and dare I say evangelical many Atheists have become in recent years. I grow increasingly saddenned by Richard Dawkins who seems very aware of his popularity and power and is getting very vocal outside of his science field and more into mocking people who have genuine and sincere belief in God.

  I think people try too hard to explain beliefs under various heading without seeing the simple answers like "I simply believe in God". Contesting my point on the origins of certain religions is fine. I think we can be very arrogant now thinking we know everything about the past when there is a good portion of information missing. You can speculate how certain beliefs grew from what information is available but you cannot really know.

  As for the Bible I think it explains quite openly why the need for sacrifices in the days of Israelites. It talks about them being a prepared people and they needed to be mentally ready for the concept of a Messiah sacrificing himself for all of mankind. But I cannot agree that it is flashy in the way modern splinter religions have developed. When things are done in the Bible there is always a practical aspect to it, speaking in tongues was literally talking in another language so you could spread the good news to them, Jesus fed people, he healed people completely. This wasn't a spectacle or pretence, it was practical everyday usage.

  Yet modern new-age religions like pentacostals try to exploit this despite knowing 1 cor 13 says these ended at a particular time. What is very telling is the way the pentacostals represent these gifts which is very unbiblical and leans much more to spiritualism practises. The speach is unintelligible, it is explosive, it throws them about, When they "Heal" it is very set up and again throwing them about (thinking about someone like Benny hinn banging their forheads with his fist throwing them backwards) you see none of that in the bible in fact quite the opposite when healing demon possessed they calm down the frantic behaviour. Paul got thrown out of a town because people believing his biblical message stopped buying idols and jewels. The net result is a christianity that tended to calm people down from more outrageous spectacle driven practices. I must also admit you have made me think deeply on this topic.
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  63

  Jehovah's Witnesses are not a CULT ...

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to 30% of the following definitions.

  that leaves 70% that show quite the opposite.

  so -- are they a cult?

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  Concerned JW

  Yes it is an interesting thread showing the word "cult" is a transmogrified word and so is now used to indicate a "bad Religion" which is very subjective and open to people then directing it at a religion they personally dislike. Steve Hassan is a Jew and clearly does not define all religions by his definition of "Cult"

  Originally the word "cult" specifically related to religions that had ritualistc practises but in recent years the ways to define it are wide-ranging, many and varied and also extremely subjective. The usage of "Cult" on this site seems to be directed at Jehovah's Witnesses specifically but also most religions seem to be also defined as cults on here because of their religious nature and recognition of God as a higher being.
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  48

  religion only to do with belief?

  by Curtains in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as jehovahs witnesses we were taught that the truth (belief) unifies every aspect of our lives and is of paramount importance.

  are other like religions like this also?

  do they emphasize belief to the same extent?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Concerned JW

  All forms of belief have structure and certain boundaries. It could be argued that Atheism is a form of social religion which looks to people such as Richard Dawkins as spiritual leaders for guidance. A lot of Religions have grown from philosophical origins like buddhism, Taoism that have added spiritual practises to their beliefs and come to worship their originators.

  Jews, Christians and Muslims all have roots from the Bible and claim their main beliefs originate with the bible. That being said you have noticed as with Pentacostals that some of their practises are drawn from outside the bible. Like having a lively spectacle based religion that are designed to be very popular and entertaining.

  Jehovah's witnesses are a Christian branch of monotheistic belief in Jehovah Almighty God the father alone and are drawn from the bible truths that were thought to have died out in the early centuries. When the then ruling Trinitarian Christians systematically and deliberately went on a seek and destroy mission on all remnants or resurgence of this belief. This christian branch finally flourished again when the bonds of trinitarianism where weakening in the 19th century to eventually become the Jehovah's witnesses we know today uniquely monotheistic to Jehovah God and using his name, specifically identifying themselves as Jehovah's People.

  The biblical point that there would be a group of people identifiable as God's people by their adherance to his word is something everyone must decide for themselves when checking on a Religion's claims against the Bible (God's word). Many People reject any belief in the bible or religious leanings but they do still have set patterns of belief molded by modern culture, thoughts and popular celebrations.
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  54

  It's all getting to me now...I let them back in my head, help

  by discreetslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this was a big week for me.

  i've been riding the momentum wave but now i feel like i'm washed up on the shore.

  i let them back in my head.

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  Concerned JW

  I am sorry about your decision to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses. You must know they are an established religion by Law. The use of Steve Hassan's book among other's on here is very dishonest. Steve Hassan himself is a Jew and has no problem with the authoritive structure of mainstream religions. A self-made choice to obey biblical directives is not control but those who are disobedient to bible directives would have you believe it is.

  If you think Witnesses are not following the bible, personally I would be interesting as to which bit you are refering too? Arguments against an authoritive structure are self-defeating as most on here will accept secular governments. So do you think we don't need structure within God's organisation? The Bible clearly shows this is not the case right from Moses setting up men in positions over the various tribes and Jesus establishing the Apostles and they themselves assigning Elders to each congregation (all imperfect except Jesus).
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

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  Concerned JW

  I did answer you The illuminator81 indirectly. The cult argument is a lie! Witnesses are an established religion by Law. Anything witnesses believe can be checked against scripture in the bible (God's word) to the satisfaction of the person wishing to join them. The burden of prove is on you to show the bible does not have these commands and laws. As I said before all Christian religions have to measure upto God's word the bible regarding what they believe and that is what we checked them against, not personal opinion. The imperfection argument is a non-starter since we are all imperfect and so unless you are saying some men can be perfect in this time you are creating a false setting. I hope this answer satisfies you. Good bye.
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

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  Concerned JW

  Fair point interestedOne but until I defended the witnesses I saw only 5 pages of words putting a very negative light on witnesses. Their is little reason for Witnesses to come on this site since clearly the majority of people on here have made their decision not to be Witnesses and indeed a lot seem to no longer believe in God as well. I only said my piece because I felt the original poster should realise she was getting opinion based answers on witnesses that are hearsay at best and clearly attacking the Witnesses which are an established and recognised Religion by law. Maybe this is what the original poster wanted and why she searched out for a site that is negative against witnesses, who knows?

  I am glad the original poster saw benefit from her bible study and that she thinks about this before believing all the negative opinions off this site. I have said my bit and can add no more to add to this discussion. Thank you.
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

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  2. 
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  Concerned JW

  Everything witnesses believe can be examined against the Bible as to whether they are correct or not. This is what you would do with any Christian faith therefore not a closed forum. Your perfection argument is faulty because it requires that some group are perfect now which is impossible according to the bible. People look for bible truth it is upto you to decide which group has it in this time. It is Jehovah and his word the Bible we make our commitment too as Witnesses. Jesus gave this commision to the Appostles (imperfect men) onwards to this time to gather together God's people under biblical command.
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

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  Concerned JW

  Not closed in the sense that people are stopped coming on here to defend witnesses but look what happens now I have defended the witnesses. The sheer weight of numbers on here against Witnesses stops it being a fair debate forum. Therefore this site is very one-sided and closed against Witnesses.

  What about using the bible? Black sheep why do you say wt literature (what does that even mean)? Jehovah's witness literature has to defer to the bible every time. It is not claimed to be perfect and mistakes can happen in literature that is only a support for the Bible truth.
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Concerned JW

  Penelopepaige you do realise this is a ex-witness site? no one on here will have a good word to say about witnesses and a lot of hearsay, exagerations, lies (they call all religions and beliefs in God cults on this site). Also a lot of emotionally loaded stories to put you against the witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses are about bible truth they do not claim to be perfect. This is closed forum there is no way for Jehovah's witnesses to defend themselves on it, please remember that.